If you’re checking out this podcast, you’re probably in some sort of leadership role. Maybe you lead a team at your church. Or maybe you lead a group of kids as a volunteer. Or maybe you’re leading your family at home. If any of these things is true, then this conversation is for you.

First we hear from Joel Manby. Known for his success in the business world, Joel has made a practice of applying the teachings of Jesus to professional settings. Then, Holly Crawshaw and Sarah Bragg sit down with Clay Scroggins to talk about principles from his book How to Lead When You’re Not in Charge. By the end of the episode, you’ll have practical steps you can take to lead from a place of purpose rather than position.

Welcome to Episode 56 of the Think Orange Podcast.

Where To Listen:  iTunes  |  Google Play  |  Stitcher  |  SoundCloud

Topic Timeline

Joel Manby talks about the leadership principles of patience, kindness, and dedication (6:35)

Patience means praising in public and admonishing in private (6:59)

Kindness isn’t about being nice all the time, but it is about encouragement (9:29)

The art of a handwritten note (10:43)

Dedication is sticking to your and the organization’s values in all circumstances (14:21)

Jesus’ example of leadership during The Last Supper (19:17)

Holly Crawshaw and Sarah Bragg interview Clay Scroggins (21:32)

Attitudes and decisions that led Clay to being on staff at North Point (25:04)

Description of book How to Lead When You’re Not in Charge (26:43)

The importance of being courageous about being honest (29:06)

The best leaders don’t lead like they’re in charge (31:20)

To move forward or lead up as a leader, you need to know exactly where you are (34:43)

Dave and Ashley’s final thoughts (39:49)

People, Places & Helpful Resources

Featured Guests

Greg Bradford


Clay is the author of the new book: How To Lead When Your Not In Charge. In addition to being an author, Clay is lead pastor of North Point Community Church (NPCC) in Alpharetta, GA. He lives in Forsyth County, Georgia, with his wife, Jenny, and their four lively children, Lucy, Jake, Sally, and Cooper.

Duffy Robbins


Joel Manby is the CEO of Herschend Family Entertainment, the largest family-owned theme park corporation in the U.S. In 2010, Joel was featured in an episode of Undercover Boss, in which he demonstrated his unique approach to leadership: Leading with love instead of power.

Quotes from This Episode

Ideas to Influence the Next Generation

It’s no secret that leadership comes with responsibility—and that the higher you go up the ladder, the weight you bear will continue to increase as well. As a leader, there are some actions you can choose, but some won’t be optional. Here are just three actions we think every leader should adopt as mandates in their life.

Unbridled Encouragement

As a leader, part of your role is to offer encouragement like its confetti at a parade. That doesn’t mean be frivolous or unspecific, tossing out meaningless compliments. But it does mean that your kind words shouldn’t be reserved for specific individuals or for moments when you feel like it. 

Intentional Influence

A major component of leadership is the idea of influence, and every leader has the ability to use their influence for good or bad. Have you ever looked at someone and thought, “I do not want to be that kind of leader”? Well, for better or worse that person had influence on your life—even if only as a cautionary tale. On the flip side, you can be the type of leader that looks for specific, practical ways to pour into others. Whose someone in your circle of influence you’ll invest in this week?

Responsive Feedback

Every leader is susceptible to the emotional ups and downs of feedback. Keep in mind even feedback that’s negative in tone can be used in a positive way when considered with patience and an open mind. Yes, people will be wrong about you. Yes, they will sometimes be unfair. But hearing what even your critics have to say will give you a window into areas of leadership in which you can improve. And if you really want to become a better leader, don’t wait for feedback to trickle its way to you. Ask others to come alongside you and provide honest insights into blind spots and not-yet-seen opportunities.

Conversation Starters For Your Church

As a church or organization, what are the values we expect our leaders to uphold? What about my own personal values?

What does it look like to lead with confidence without coming across as authoritative?

Who are two or three people that will give me honest feedback about my leadership abilities?

Your Hosts

Dave Adamson, The Think Orange Podcast Host


When he’s not working as a pastor at North Point Ministries in Atlanta, Dave is usually making his family cross their arms, roll their eyes, and tap their feet while he takes “just one more quick photo” on family outings. You’ll also often find him up to his neck in “Jewish stuff” as he researches the cultural context of Jesus for his daily Instagram devotions. Learn more about Dave at daveadamson.tv.

Ashley Bohinc, The Think Orange Podcast Host


Ashley serves as the Director of Middle School Strategy at Orange and the USA Director of Carry 117. She has worked with students in public education, athletic and ministry settings for the last 12 years. She is most passionate about resourcing the local church, communicating on stage, developing leaders, working with students and world missions. In her downtime, you’ll find her watching Friends, cheering on the Cleveland Cavaliers, traveling, reading, or on one of her Fairytale Friday Adventures.

Join Us Next Week

Thank you for listening to the Think Orange Podcast.

We hope you’ll join us for next week’s episode. More importantly, we hope that when you think next generation, you think Orange.